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June 04, 2008

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YES YES YES you TELL 'em.

And congratulations on the anniversary! And the ten weeks!

(Long time listener, first time caller...)

Congrats on your 10 weeks, isn't it great! You will be in the second tri so soon.
Poltzie,
ps. I totally agree with you about the political statements!

Yes, Yes, and another HELL YES!

I will never EVER understand people who will jump party like that. Did you only support Hillary because of her ovaries? Shame on you then!

And happy anniversary!

And yippee on 10 weeks! Here's to smooth sailing for 30 more.

Boo to "preview" and "post" being too close together thus making me look like a ditz. Well, ok, more so than usual.

Congrats on your anniversary.

However, this--

"Listen, lady. I'm going to say this once. If you vote for McCain, and that crazy asshole wins, I just hope your daughter doesn't die of a backalley abortion. I hope your son doesn't get drafted for a war in Iran. I hope your husband doesn't have a stroke from particulate air pollution. I hope your B&B doesn't go broke in a depression. Good fucking luck with all of it."

doesn't really do anything to dispell the stereotype that women can't separate emotion from rational thought. That statement is irrational and emotional to the core.

TOTALLY.

and conrats!

So I kind of think you should send this piece into the Enquirer (lightly edited, perhaps) to see if you can knock some sense into people. You can't, of course, because why use rational thought when being ruled by emotions is so much easier -- and who doesn't love a rollercoaster?

Damn straight. A few months ago, when things were getting really heated, my brother, who attends law school at a very very liberal Big Ten university, was telling me that in his heavily Obama-leaning school, everyone he knew was so angry at Clinton that if she got the nom they would all vote for McCain. And I was really just incredulous and FURIOUS at the short-sightedness of it. I mean, really? REALLY? Spiting Clinton is more important than every single one of your political beliefs? Spiting Clinton is more important than the Supreme Court, or the war, or the environment, or EVERYTHING? And the thoughts in that editorial are exactly the same, just in reverse.

erin, emotional i can see. but irrational? Care to elaborate on that? or was that just a drive-by? How is it irrational that in a country that elects an anti-abortion war supporter that our future young adults may die in Iran or from a back alley abortion?

Obama did have control over choosing an "ex-gay" to be a speaker at one of his rallies. And he has consistently shown himself very clueless on GLBT issues, so, sorry, not going to vote for him because I don't believe for a minute that he wouldn't throw my family to the legal wolves to make a deal across the aisle.

I certainly hope my daughter doesn't die of a back alley abortion, but I don't think I deserve to be blamed for that possibility because I can't vote for someone who doesn't get that I'm her mom. Not that I intend to vote for McCain. And not that it matters anyway since Obama could be running against Jesus Christ himself and he'd still carry my state.

Congrats on your anniversary and here's to another 28 weeks!

I know! I was boosting for Clinton. I wish she'd gotten the nomination. I have some legitimate qualms about Obama.

But DAMN, I'm not going to sell out the principles that made me like Clinton and vote for McCain just to spite Obama.

Kateri,
Well, first of all, we have an all-volunteer military. Don't want to die in an armed conflict, don't join. McCain, as a military man, would never reinstate the draft. That's just fear-mongering along the lines of "They're going to take your social security!" You hear it every election cycle.
Secondly--even in the very, very, long shot chance that Roe v. Wade was reversed, that wouldn't outlaw abortion--it would turn it back to the states. Again, it's just the fear-mongering that you get in the election cycle. Especially when you're referring to a man who's practically a liberal himself, John McCain. Fear-mongering is irrational, wouldn't you say?

Haha, sing it sister! I've been slightly disturbed by the prevalence of professional women I've come into contact with who insist that as a feminist woman, you must vote for Clinton. And they hate Obama with a passion because he's a man and he's just a part of the patriarchy.

A key tenet of equality and feminism (in my mind) is the right to vote your own choice based on your own beliefs. Not to just jump on any bandwagon for superficial reasons.

On the same note, when my friend's husband told me to make his wife vote for Obama, I told him that she has her own mind and needs to vote for who she believes in (though she did later come over to Camp Obama after Hillary started to lose it a bit).

Of course I'd love to have a woman president. But I'd rather vote for the right man than the wrong woman.

There are ways in which Obama is way too liberal for me and actually also ways in which he is not liberal enough. As far as history, yes, it is emotional and wonderful. I hope he comes out with a real platform soon. Has he even served a full senate term yet? I honestly don't trust him with the terrorists or with the people who want to obliterate Israel. But I don't trust McCain with many domestic issues and don't know that I could vote Republican for president (though I have voted Republican for governor and felt fine about it.) Too bad Edwards wasn't a observant Jewish black woman.

Erin, do you have a lot of military family? I do. It isn't pretty right now. If our country continues to overextend its fighting forces, as McCain has expressly promised to do, we will have little choice but to reinstate some form of conscription.

If abortion is returned to the states, some states will keep it legal. Some will make it illegal. Women in areas that are far away from legal abortion areas, and who cannot afford to travel, will likely resort to less-than-legal options -- or not have abortion as an option at all. This is happening NOW -- even though abortion is legal, there are wide swaths of the country in which it is unavailable.

Brooke, those are important points to raise. Perhaps he can get on the stick about that now.

Emotional? Yes. Irrational? No way, dude. Everything I said is based in what McCain and the Republicans stand for and have shown about themselves.

"Practically a liberal himself." Bahahahaha.

and erin, you're missing the point entirely anyway. the issue isn't (primarily) that the batshit crazy innkeeper was switching to McCain, but that she was doing it out of spite for how she felt Obama's campaign treated Clinton. The point is also not that no one should and can be passionate about their choice (which is why Jo's response was emotional but NOT irrational), but that they support that passion with knowledge and awareness. vote for who you're gonna vote for, what the fuck

gretch--I don't think you can infer from anything that I wrote that I missed her point.
I am merely making a different point, that being that it isn't beneficial to answer irrational with irrational. Jo has stated that she feels there is rationale to her emotional rant, from my position, I don't see it. When Romney dropped out of the campaign, many conservative (myself included) were angry with McCain. Over time, cooler head prevailed, as I think will happen in a few short weeks with the Democratic party. Further inflammatory rhetoric will only prolong that process. Does that make sense to anyone?

Ah, I see. You only had the best interests of the Democratic Party in mind!

I don't think you missed my point, Erin, I just suspect we disagree profoundly. Which is okay. Except that I'm right. ;)

What I think is that you should send this post to that lady. I feel sure that it would change her mind.

Happy anniversary!

Arwen, hee hee hee! Hey, I'm more of a divider than a uniter. I'm okay with that.

No, I hope you don't unite, Jo. I just know that many of you will, just as many of us conservatives will stand behind McCain whilst holding our noses.
There is a lot of emotion when you are passionately behind a candidate, and it hurts to see them lose. I'm sure many feminists are heart-broken that they won't see Hillary in the White House (again). They must be feeling pretty bad right now.

Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face, no? Congrats on ten weeks. I hope I get that far, too!

Yeah, I kind of felt that way in 04. And in 00.

Awesome - you're absolutely right. And congratulations!

McCain is not practically a liberal. Really. Reallyreallyreally. Seriously, I thought he was maybe a Republican I could vote for 9 years ago when I moved to Arizona. I thought he was ethical! I thought he was reasonable!

He's not either of those things. He is completely power-hungry and that man has one hell of a temper.

So, back to congratulations on all the goodness, Jo.

I am going to spend the entire day thinking "Practically a liberal himself" and then snickering.

OK, guffawing.

Amen, sister! When are you running for president? :) And congratulations on your anniversary! and on your 10 weeks!!! Many, many more, on both counts.

i hate being called gretch.

Oh how funny--we got married within a few weeks of each other! THIS (not the wedded bliss or the ten weeks hopefully down of hopefully thirty-nine or so total, but the political stuff) is why I have barred myself from major news media until I get my adrenal insufficiency/Addison's/Autoimmune DOOM sorted out: I will now be in a coma for the rest of the day because I totally just blew a gasket and was yelling at the computer. OMG SERIOUSLY PEOPLE??? I dunno if I'll be conscious enough to stand under the Feminist umbrella and help throw elbows to the deserving, but if I'm unconscious you have my permission to toss me in front of 'em so they trip and get trampled. Sheesh. Idjits. Of all the assaults on feminism that have taken place thus far in this election (ugggghhhhh so much more to go!) I think this about takes the prize--someone pin a ribbon on them stupid bitches. HARD.

Congratulations to you and the Mensch!

I'm bummed I won't get the chance to vote for Hillary, but I will support Obama with no qualms.

You go girl! I'm a feminist, but I had no intention of voting for Clinton just as I have no intention of voting for McCain. Both of these two are too devisive in a time that we need someone who can get us to unite as a country.

Congrats on your pregnancy!

I'm thinking what all those party jumpers are really saying is I'll take four or eight more years of George W. Bush (in the form of McCain) before I will vote for a black man.

I'm thinking what all those party jumpers are really saying is I'll take four or eight more years of George W. Bush (in the form of McCain) before I will vote for a black man.

The fact of the matter is that the current administration is sucky. There is always fear-mongering that will occur in an election year, but I try to hold myself off from sucking in every idea that is spewed at me from the television or radio. People need to stop focusing on which party they're going to vote for, and start focusing on the PEOPLE they are voting for. And more of us should be running for office, not allowing these politician a-holes to have a monopoly on what happens in our country. It's still our country, dammit.

jo, big congrats on your anniversary and on 10 weeks pregnant.

i specially arranged for obama's win for julie's birthday on june 3rd!

the hrc gives obama an 89% positive rating on issues important to lbgt folks. he is at least as progressive on our issues as any other candidate who might actually win the presidency, including clinton. i'm offended by single issue voting, especially if this is the issue you're going to split hairs about, since he's really pretty good. as a lesbian, i think it's sheer lunacy not to vote for obama if lgbt issues are your only concern with him.

Erin-- calling McCain a liberal is seriously laughable. He has one of the WORST anti-choice voting records of ANYONE in the senate yet he manages to convey to people like you that he is moderate. HE IS NOT. As a woman only alive because of a medical procedure he voted to make criminal, I take it damned personally that he believes I should be DEAD.

Jo, congrats on 10 weeks and the anniversary. I'm so sorry I won't see you this weekend. :)

I don't understand why anyone thinks anybody but the actual voter gets to decide who she votes for.

I mean, seriously, I get to say you can't be a feminist if you don't vote in what I think your best interest is?

Obama can get my vote when he earns it, same as any other politican. I don't owe my vote to anyone. I am not obligated by my race, class, gender, or sexual orientation to vote in any particular way no matter what you or anyone might believe my best interest is. I get to weigh all the issues and decide that. I get to decide what is a dealbreaker. I know what my own interest is, no one else gets to make that call.

I remember that day...and how it cleared up just in time, and the way the air smelled. Brayden was not quite 3 months old yet, but proved the be the best cross country road trip buddy ever. I remember watching you dance, and standing under that gorgeous magnolia tree by the water with my mom and my son on a most perfect night.

XOXO

brooke, of course you do! of COURSE you get to vote for whomever you want. but i will continue to take you to task on the facts -- obama actually has a very strong record on issues that i care about as a lesbian. as far as i can tell, the only place he and i disagree on is marriage, and really, no politically viable candidate can be in favor of marriage. obama, however, supports civil unions, equal tax treatment on a federal level, dp benes for federal employees, federal employment discrimination legislation, and he's opposed to a marriage amendment. he supports the state's right to sort this out, including the rights of states to offer full marriage benefits. he wants to repeal doma and "don't ask, don't tell," he supports lgbt adoption, and says he'll use his bully pulpit to pass a federal hate crime bill. on the aids front, he wants to lift the federal ban on needle exchange, he supports age-appropriate sex education, he wants to confront the spread of hiv/std's in prisons. he routinely includes us in his stump speeches, using the words "gay and lesbian.' he included us in his 2004 convention speech, in the speech where he declared his candidacy, and he's been willing to speak out about our issues in places where doing so posed a real political risk -- such as when preaching at ebenezer baptist in atlanta (mlk's church) and at rick warren's mega church in california. so i'd be really curious to know what in his record leads you to be so suspicious of him? these are pretty strong words:

"And he has consistently shown himself very clueless on GLBT issues, so, sorry, not going to vote for him because I don't believe for a minute that he wouldn't throw my family to the legal wolves to make a deal across the aisle."

as the white lesbian mom of an african american boy, as a family that has put down roots in an african american neighborhood, as a couple who have spent most of our adult lives working with and for people and children living in poverty, as someone who believes the carnage in iraq is sinful -- i will repeat that for me, personally, it would be sheer lunacy to vote against obama on a single issue on which he actually has such a strong record. and on behalf of the individuals i love and the communities i care about who don't have the luxury of making this their single issue, i continue to be offended by single issue voting.

i really would like to hear more about why you think obama is such a homophobe and so untrustworthy on our issues.

best,
marta

Delurking to say: YES! I love your response and couldn't agree more. You totally rock.

Sing it, sister! I've been saying the same thing for many weeks but far, far less eloquently. And also, congrats on the pregnancy. :)

As a longtime Green Party voter - yes, a flaming liberal who voted her conscience at the expense of Gore/Kerry's ambitions - I'd opine that sanctimonious minilectures about the Importance of Party Unity in These Troubled Times are just not going to resonate with a person who wants to send a message to the DNC.

The DNC doesn't own anyone's votes. You may not agree with this woman's feelings, but she's an adult and entitled to vote for whomever she wants, for whateverr reason she wants.

hi benita. i'm glad you feel good about your votes as a member of the green party.

i just want to clarify two things. first, i probably should have used more careful language in my comment directed to brooke -- i could have tried harder to make my point without offending her (and you). for that i am sorry.

but i also want to clarify that i am NOT telling anyone she owes anyone a vote. i am not telling anyone they should vote one way or the other for any reason. i AM insisting that in a public forum, we get the facts straight (pun intended -see i have a sense of humor!) when we declare whom we will vote for and why. you can choose not to vote for obama because you don't like the color of his tie and i'll concede that's your right, but if you say you don't like the color of his tie because purple is ugly, and in fact obama's tie is yellow, well then i'm going to argue with you. if you say you are not going to vote for obama because he is a raging homophobe who will cast your family to the wolves the second it becomes politically expedient, i'm going to challenge you on that. and that, surely, is my right, nu?

that's all.

best,

marta

Yes, our military is voluntary, but only voluntary to enlist. You can't voluntarily leave. You also can't count on going home when your tour of duty has ended. Many of our men and women have been there way longer than they ever should have been. I agree with Jo wholeheartedly!

You are so right. If you agreed with Clinton on the issues, it makes no sense to vote for McCain no matter who he's running against.

For Clinton supporters saying they will vote for McCain: show me one issue McCain is even moderate on. Healthcare? Education and NCLB in particular? This god forsaken war? Environmental issues? Patriot act? Gun Control? Women's issues? Stem Cell Research? Marriage Amendment? OK, I'll give you campaign finance but only moderate in comparison to others, he's still miles from reasonable.

He takes the opposite stance to Obama on all the issues, If you fall between Obama and McCain on issues, than I can see it, but if you were an active Hillary supporter, it just makes no sense.

I was a Clinton supporter and I have some reservations about Obama, particularly his Health Care plan. And I live in Texas, so it won't matter anyway, but I will be out there campaigning and donating, calling and blockwalking, just like I did for Clinton, because it's all about the issues, not the person, and McCain is just flat out wrong on them all.

And Erin, it will only take one more Republican appointed justice to overturn Roe v Wade. It's pretty likely there will be more than one appointment in the next 4 years.

Marta,

My response was actually intended for Jo's original post - which smacks of, "Hey ladies! You're allowed to decide for yourselves, as long as you agree with me! Or else!"

I agree that Obama is likely on board with LGBT issues, etc.

____
* "Or else I'll call you names and refuse to invite you to my party!"

Actually, I think Erin entirely gets the point....I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said.
And just to play just sides of the fence, Christine.. You were under the impression McCain was Ethical? Did you never hear of the Keating 5?

My plan to guffaw over Erin's comment was foiled by a Republican strategist on NPR who said that Obama's campaign was relying on a method of saying something totally implausible, then repeating it.
Then he called McCain a maverick about a jillion times.

Don't have money to buy a car? Worry not, because it's achievable to take the loan to resolve all the problems. Thence take a bank loan to buy all you require.

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